May 20, 2013
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I Don’t Think I’m Ever Going to get the Whole Gender Issue Stuff
I predict this post will likely bother people who will them feel inclined to leave nasty comments. Which is another aspect of this whole entire realm of the LGBT community, which seems to consist of the borg mentality – you will be assimilated. Anything less than complete endorsement is treated the same as if you want to lynch them all. And this is the complete opposite of “tolerance”. I see a lot of intellectual bullying to force people into compliance. “Resistance is futile.” And if there is anything that makes me dig in and resist, it is when I feel like I am being forced into something regardless of how I feel about it. But I digress.
My daughter’s boyfriend was raised female. According to him, he was born male and when he was a baby something happened and the doctors told his 17 year old mother that it would be best to allow them to do surgery to make him into a girl. As far fetched as this may sound to some folks, I have heard of this before. (LINK) And there are also instances where people are born with a giant clitoris or micro penis, and so at birth are “assigned” the wrong gender. (LINK) And also, there is the the fact that the male and female brains are developed differently from one another. (LINK, LINK)
But the first of the last two links I gave says, “Mild cases of malformed genitalia occur in 1 percent of all births.”
Now, I have a friend who was born female but now says he wants to be referred to as he. And my daughter’s other friend who was also born female has done the same. And this seems to be happening a LOT with the younger generation. More than 1%. And I really don’t understand it. This is why:
It is the same crowd (LGBT community) who is in the forefront protesting “gender roles”. They are saying that nothing should be viewed as only for one gender. And I am cool with that. I have no problem with that. But here is where I run into a problem. If you really think that, then what is the problem with whatever gender your DNA says you are? Why MUST you be the other gender? I mean, either it is true that you don’t have to be a certain gender in order to be a certain way, or it is true that you can only be a certain way as a certain gender. And that’s what I don’t get.
Comments (38)
Good luck with this can of worms, Sam
@firetyger - I know. “Resistance is futile,” right? But really, I was just trying to state my delima. But it seems the LGBT crowd has been so brainwashed to interpret anything less than endorcement as hatred, it makes any kind of discussion impossible. (Thank you Westboro for your contribution to this line of thinking.)
Being a masculine girl or a feminine man. Why is this seen as such a problem that it requires extreme surgery and physical mutilation. Surgery that never does anything beyond the cosmetic? Its not that I have an issue with it so much as I wonder if it really helps anyone? I fully accept a person for the way they are. But I see most cases of gender modification surgery as not accepting a person they way they are. Its not as if the surgery works. The poor guys will never really know what its like to be a girl. And the poor girls can never really be a man. It is just a painful costume. If it worked I would have no complaints other than to say make sure you really know what you want
“Now, I have a friend who was born female but now says he wants to be referred to as he. And my daughter’s other friend who was also born female has done the same
If you really think that, then what is the problem with whatever gender your DNA says you are? Why MUST you be the other gender?”
Gender and sex are different. Transgender people feel that they are another gender that their sex doesn’t reflect. Here is a story about a young trans woman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxhyFA8iV9o
http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/gender-identity-disorder
It’s commonplace for people to be unable to relate to those with mental disorders. I think the best way of understanding is listening and reading more about the topic, although right now the causes of GID are unknown.
Oooh, I love this.
@trunthepaige - I don’t really care at all what other people do with their bodies. I just don’t understand the logic. And it seems like it just complicates the problem because if they are ever able to actually come to terms with what they are, they have painted themselves into a corner so to speak, and it seems that this whole thing would make healing their minds and hearts even more impossible.
@ShimmerBodyCream - Why then is the answer to a mental disorder not a mental solution but surgery?
@mtngirlsouth - surgery definitely should not be the quick fix answer. People with GID usually have to go through extensive therapy before getting surgery. Even after having surgeries you can still have a lot of problems.
I am not sure how this post is offensive. There is not judgment in what you stated and it seems like it is something you’d actually like to understand. I am not sure how many responses you are going to get from people who are transgendered so most of the responses will be from an outsider that actually hasn’t walked in their shoes.
I can understand it somewhat, and that is only because if I woke up and suddenly had a penis, I would die. I’ve always had a strong identity with the idea that I am female and if I felt the way I feel about my gender and I had man parts (permanently attached) I would be unhappy. I’d want the thing gone, but this is hypothetical as I’ve never actually been a man that wanted to be seen as female and simultaneously disgusted by the genitalia I was born with. To an extent, I agree with Paige, that in a way, it is not accepting the person for who they were born as, but I think the issue may be a bit deeper than I don’t like my breasts, face, or whatever. I suppose some people may not be happy with doing things that are considered masculine if they are female; they want the body that matches. To me, it’s their choice.
If my friend wants to be called “he,” I will call him “he.” If she wants to be called “she,” I will call her “she.”
I don’t see what the big deal is.
@ShimmerBodyCream - You should see how fast they have a guy scheduled for surgery around here. Start, decides to do it, to finish one year.
@ShimmerBodyCream - Oh girl you so stepped in it. They do not want to be thought of as having a mental disorder
@trunthepaige - Yeah, that is definitely negligence on a therapist’s part. It’s a huge commitment and some people end up regretting it.
I will say this, when you were created by the Father in heaven, this is the gender that you were created. And trying to change the way you were made is going against His plan.
I do not care if you change from a male to female or the other way around. You have gone against what you were created too be. And this by doing so, you will be judged for that when you stand before the Great White Throne Judgment and have to answer for that.
It is very sick when you want to change the way you were created, and even sicker when some quack doctor will change you too what you want to really be. Bro. Doc
@BroDoc - The issue of changing what G-d originally gave us does have implications. A lot of folks are forced to remove an appendix that bursts or remove an impacted wisdom tooth. Some things are not perfect and it is allowable to operate on some stuff in the body.
I rather that those candidates for sexual identity operations do get extensive therapy too. Even Breast enlargement should force some therapy to get the patient absolutely sure of the value of an operation.
My niece was born with four fingers. Are you objecting to a little bit of cosmetic surgery? One Christian group makes a big deal about upper lip surgery (cleft lip) and that sort of is not one group that needs too much therapy to listen to.
PPhillip You missed the whole point of what I was saying.
When one changed the gender of being a man to a woman, they have changed what the Eternal wanted them too be.
When you need to add a finger, fix a broken nose, leg, arm, make a new breast when you lose one to cancer, that is fine.
But Breast enlargement or male enlargement is wrong, because you are created a certain way.
But when one is created without certain parts then we have to fix them.
But changing your sex is NOT what the Eternal would want. When we do this we have sinned against Him.
Now I hope you have seen the point. Bro. Doc
i don’t think this was particularly offensive. i absolutely support someone’s right to change genders, even though i cannot sympathize with the desire.
Thanks for the valuable information
I’ve often asked myself exactly the same question. Is surgery really necessary? Can a woman not have a deep voice, a flat chest and even a penis? I think i am as feminine or masculine as I feel, and the only parts about looks that reflect ‘who I am’ are the ones I can change ‘naturally’. I think it is fair to make assumptions about someone’s character by the way they actively present themselves, e.g. dress , talk and move. But not by whether they have a long or tiny jaw or big breasts or none.
I think we have to work on abolishing the idea of gender and sex going hand in hand altogether. If people don’t THINK a woman or a man is supposed to act in a certain way, then those with an x or y chromosome will not feel so infringed in their possibilities of self expression. We should also abolish gender as a dual system, where there are He’s and She’s.
(I think we ALL struggle with gender roles then and when, e.g. when people assume I can’t do certain things or I am a certain way because I am a woman that really p*sses me off. On the other hand, I have very feminine traits and I don’t identify with many things that are regarded as masculine at all. I’m so to say 70% female. Or 90. Dunno)
I don’t generally disagree if someone does change their sex by surgery though. Similiar to plastic surgery in general. I am against bullying people because they are ‘ugly’ of course, I also am against dress codes being indoctrinated, and I am against judging according to the sex. BUT: people DO jugde, they DO make fun of you and socially exclude you, they STOP taking you seriously and they DON’T give you jobs… they make your life hard. The pain they feel is not just ‘their own fault’ but a normal human reaction to ridicule, bullying and exclusion. It is unlikely one person can change all these things in their surrounding. If you are a man you WILL be expected to not cry and be physically ‘tough’. If you are a woman you WILL be expected to be sweet and make sure you are pretty.
Probably, sometimes surgery is the easier way to increase life quality. That doesn’t necessarily mean you aren’t “healed on the inside”. I have my opinions on these issues and I love myself. I love other people who don’t ‘fit in’. But sometimes it is easier and smarter to ‘comply’ with social standards and play along the established ‘rules’.
It is tricky to find the ‘right position’ in an individual case. If it’s promoted too aggressively that everyone who feels uncomfortable in their body ‘should’ have surgery, it sends a wrong message. I think it’s dangerous for prebuscent children to swallow hormones too.
I support LGBT rights in that same sex couples should have partnerships with ALL the same rights as heterosexual couples, in that anyone should be able call themselves what they want.
I will try to explain as best I can. Yes, I am a part of the LGBT community, but please don’t overturn my comment. I’m just trying to help you understand. Not everyone that is born as a female (vagina) male (penis) will feel internally feminine to match those female parts, or masculine to match the male parts. That’s a social construction.
Sexuality, gender and sex are three very separate things and that spectrum are long and it is all very fluid. Very few people will fit on the extreme side of one or the other.
Sex is your parts, and doesn’t correlate with your gender. It does due to society, as society will take your parts and tell you which ways to act, but internally, the way you feel won’t necessarily match this. Your sex also won’t automatically depict your sexuality, nor will your sexuality depict your gender. Therefore a male that feels feminine and wants to wear bracelets and pink won’t necessarily be gay, but that’s his gender, and the same with ‘dyke’ females. Just because a woman dresses ‘manly’ they won’t always be a lesbian.
So why do they feel the need to go to the extreme and change their gender? Well… Let me ask you. If you were born with a penis, but felt the way you do, wanting to birth children, have your hair long, paint your nails, be a woman; would you be content walking around in ‘manly’ clothes, working as a builder, having short hair and being masculine all over? I wouldn’t. Just some food for thought.
Good luck with figuring it out!
I think a lot of folks are really missing the point here. Everyone says “this wasn’t offensive” and “right to change gender”, “blah blah blah.”
The issue is the fact that a certain wing of people are telling us there should be no gender roles. That boys can cook and play with dolls and girls can change the transmissions in their Firebird. But this same group is also telling us that we must accept and support (not just tolerate it, but support) folks that want to change their sex. Well, when they do that, aren’t they changing themselves to actually partake in traditional gender roles that this same group tells the rest of us that we should not support?
These folks tell us one day “do not accept traditional gender roles!” Then the next day, they tell us “support folks that change their sex so they CAN fall into their gender role.”
THAT is the part that makes no sense and really makes me feel that they are not genuine in the least about their stance on the issue.
Also, I would like to add, that I have an androgynous friend, he was born a male but internally, in his mind he feels equally feminine and masculine and live in harmony with both (in his words). So that can happen to, certain people will feel the need to be one because that’s the way they are, or they’re content being a bit of both.
Here’s a genderbread man to help you!
http://www.nomorestrangers.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/The-Genderbread-Person.jpg
I haven’t got the foggiest idea.
Why must social values be determined by freaks?
I know the term “freak” is harsh but I the word expresses the situation exactly.
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It confuses me, too. Most of the stories I’ve read of females wanting to become male are people who have been abused. It seems like they just don’t think they can be strong enough as women, that they’re trying to change genders to take themselves out of the role of victim. I can understand that, but I think it’s unhealthy. When else does the mental perception and the physical reality not match up that we think it’s the physical reality that’s inaccurate?
It worries me for their sakes, but I try. I think I went overboard with our friend, though, trying to impress on myself that I should treat him as male even though I feel he interacts like a female. People who abuse children should be executed.
You know, I don’t understand it either. And it’s because I don’t understand it that I give the person the benefit of the doubt. I have a few friends who are going through hormone therapy, going from male to female, or female to male. They change their name and change their pronoun… And yeah… it’s annoying for me to just disregard everything I originally knew about these people. However, I also realize that it must be more annoying to go through life as a female, always believing that for some reason, you were a male and that you don’t belong in your own skin.
@grim_truth -
“Well, when they do that, aren’t they changing themselves to actually partake in traditional gender roles that this same group tells the rest of us that we should not support? “
why does someone’s physical makeup affect how they can participate in gender roles? as a kid, my little brother loved driving around my Barbie pink corvette. did he think he was mistakenly born with a penis? nope. did he need a sex change in order to drive that corvette? nope.
if i ever have kids with my SO, i’ll most likely work and, if anyone can afford it, he’ll be the one who stays at home. i’m more career-driven than he is. so, does that mean we need to switch genitalia in order to make that work? nope. does that mean i suddenly hate my vagina? nope.
changing your gender is about how you feel in your own skin. i compare it to someone who hates their body because they’re overweight/underweight/too pale/too dark/etc. people don’t change their gender so they can switch gender roles. such a thing is not necessary. and that’s kind of the point. but of course you can’t understand that, since you still seem so stuck on this archaic notion that only men can do manly things and only women can do womanly things.
@flapper_femme_fatale - Exactly my point. You DON’T need to change your sex.
And what on earth in my comment even led you to think that I’m stuck in the archaic notion that only men can do many things and women can only do women things?
Honestly, every time I talk to you, you do nothing but prove how intolerant and prejudicial you are. Especially since I”m the cook in my household. Yeah, get that, I have a penis, I love to bake and I’m not an intolerant liberal hypocrite!
But since you are so focused on judging folks without knowing anything about them, allow me to clarify my point in my previous comment. It had nothing to do with gender roles. It had more to do with the hypocrisy of those that scream “no gender roles!” then turn around and tell everyone to accept those that change their sex in order to accomodate gender roles. And yes, that’s what sex changes are. It’s not about being comfortable in one’s own skin. When humans change their physical appearance, it’s more for fitting in to what they feel society thinks they should be like. So yes, it is about “roles.” People lose weight or gain weight, because they feel the role is to be beautiful or “healthy.” People tan because they feel this pressure to fit into the role of being “beautiful.”
So yes, sex changes are indeed about “roles.”
I WILL BE INTERESTED TO READ PEOPLE’S COMMENTS ON THIS. I AGREE, THOUGH, THAT A LARGE PART OF THE LGBT COMMUNITY CLAIMS ANYTHING LESS THAN FULL ENDORSMENT CONSTITUTES HATRED, WHICH IS RIDICULOUS.
@grim_truth - I absolutely agree that often sex changes are about roles.
I think it is also about feeling too though. “He feels feminine, he naturally likes feminine thing. He prefers playing dolls…” a lot of times they fall into a particular gender role but not intentionally. It can be simply their natural preference for one thing or another. As for going through with the surgery, I think it’s a lot about feeling comfortable in their own body as opposed to wanting to live a traditional female role. Often, transgender lead anything but a typical female/male life.
I have never had the urge to grow a penis so I can’t understand it but from the ones I do know, they often get the surgery because they say it feels right as if they have fixed a balance in their life.
@lonelywanderer2 - amen. Because most of us never been through what lgbt community has, we can only sympathize on a certain level but not necessarily understand it or appreciate all of it.
I know this is going to sound awful, but a lot of it is a bunch of malarkey. Many of the people that claim to suffer from these disorders are just people who are desperate for attention. Society has always been attracted to tragedy so there is no easier way of getting the attention they crave than claiming to be some sort of victim. It just infuriates me to know that some people use this for attention while the people who actually suffer from these afflictions never end getting the help they need because they’re too ashamed to admit it and everyone is focused on the people who just want attention. Don’t get me wrong. Not everyone is faking it, but many people are. It’s become a fad of sorts…just like how it was when I was in high school when everyone claimed to be homosexual and are now married to a member of the opposite sex with children.
@grim_truth -
“And what on earth in my comment even led you to think that I’m stuck in the archaic notion that only men can do many things and women can only do women things?”
because you believe that people who suffer from gender confusion have only one reason for wanting to change genders: they want to play a particular part in society that can only be done by a person with a particular genitalia package. and, like i said, it’s not about that. a friend of mine went through gender reassignment. it wasn’t because she wanted to play housewife, cook and clean all day, etc. she could have done that as a male. she did it because she felt as though there was something fundamentally wrong with her body, plain and simple. she felt that way even when she was younger and into more manly pursuits.
“It’s not about being comfortable in one’s own skin. “
how do you know? considering your attitude, i highly doubt you’ve ever felt it. who are you to judge someone’s motivations? and you accuse me of being a judgmental bitch…
“People lose weight or gain weight, because they feel the role is to be beautiful or “healthy.” People tan because they feel this pressure to fit into the role of being “beautiful.” “
insecure and easily manipulated people, perhaps. personally, i want to lose weight because i’m borderline diabetic, my thighs rub together, and it’s difficult to find clothes i like in my size. society’s opinion of health or beauty has little to do with it. same goes for skin tone: i have red hair and green eyes, and i think pale skin matches those shades better than tan skin.
@flapper_femme_fatale - ”pale skin matches those shades better than tan skin.” Thanks for proving my point. It’s about fitting into a role. It may not be a gender role, but it’s a role. It’s a role of perspective that society puts upon us. Most folks think that redheaded people don’t look right tanned, and that they look better pale, therefore it’s about the role society has perpetuated that redhead people should be paler.
Losing weight for honest health reasons is nothing similar to changing one’s sex, because there are no health reasons to do so. They feel feminine or masculine and feel in order to fit that role, they need to change sex rather than to embrace the way they just are. If it wasn’t about fitting into a role, then they wouldn’t change themselves. It’s really no different than say a woman that loves to work on cars. If she gives up working on cars, she is changing who she is to fit into that role. Just as if a woman feels more like a man, she changes who she is to fit that role by getting a sex change.
If you would stop being judgemental and practice the tolerance you preach, you would easily see I have nothing against transgendered people. It’s actually those that preach we need to stop pushing gender roles on children yet tell everyone to accept the changes they make to fit into what they feel is a particular role they must fill. I really think that was the point of the original post as well.
@Yorokobi1010 - I think they feel right about it because of the “roles” pushed by society. It’s those roles that end up making them feel more comfortable. What I find bothersome is those that condemn the gender roles are also the ones applauding and pushing for these folks to make these changes. While they yell at others to stop gender roles, they push these folks into the gender roles. I just can’t beleive they are sincere when they push folks one group of folks into the percieved roles while condemning others for accepting the roles.
I will never understand why this is perpetuated as a big deal.
A transgender person has their hormone balance medically altered. Same with people taking anti-depressants. There’s no difference here. Should we question people with depression and anxiety for their hormonal medication treatments? (because that’s purely elective)
A transgender person may have cosmetic surgery. Same with everyone you watch on tv. Or maybe someone you know had a mole removed (cosmetic procedure in many cases). Are they doing something wrong too? All of this elective.
If I want to be a woman, I’m allowed to be a woman. If that bothers you, whatever. Just have respect. Call a person he, or she, as they are due that respect. And you might be respectful towards trans people. But from reading this I surely would not assume that. This entry was not respectful.
@grim_truth -
“Thanks for proving my point.”
…huh? my point was that, despite what society likes, i prefer the green eyes-red hair-pale skin combo. a decade ago, i had blond and red highlights and tanned religiously. again, only because it was what i was into at the time. so… i’m not seeing how i proved your point.
“They feel feminine or masculine and feel in order to fit that role, they need to change sex rather than to embrace the way they just are.”
“masculine” and “feminine” are social constructs that have nothing to do with gender. i’m getting exhausted with repeating myself, but i’ll try one more time: people who change genders do so because they do not feel comfortable in their own skin. they feel they should have a penis where there is a vagina, or vice versa. clearly, you have trouble grasping this concept, which is fine. but mature people usually fess up to their ignorance.
“Just as if a woman feels more like a man, she changes who she is to fit that role by getting a sex change.”
but, again, it’s about one’s body… not about the role that body normally plays in society. as i mentioned before, my friend wanted to be female even when she was still participating in activities usually considered for men only. it had nothing to do with gender roles.
“If you would stop being judgemental and practice the tolerance you preach, you would easily see I have nothing against transgendered people.”
really? because i have a similar attitude with Christians (i think you’re all delusional, but really don’t care what you do as long as i can live my life without your religion’s presence) and am frequently labeled as anti-Christian. so i’m having trouble seeing what the difference is. you certainly don’t sound tolerant when you make incorrect assumptions about why one would want to change genders.
“It’s actually those that preach we need to stop pushing gender roles on children yet tell everyone to accept the changes they make to fit into what they feel is a particular role they must fill. “
i don’t see how the two are relevant. in one instance, we’re talking about indoctrination. in the other, we’re talking about adults making their own choices. frankly, i don’t care how you raise your children. just don’t expect the rest of society to help you with that. your offspring are your problem alone.
That’s a really good point. I would argue that there are clear biological differences between men and women in my generation. So I can see how it would make a big difference being labeled as one gender or the other. But in my son’s generation there sure seems to be a lot of young men who wear skinny jeans, never reach 5.5ft tall, and have narrower shoulders and smaller jaws. They grew up with disney princesses and ballet classes, they shave their body hair, they paint their nails, they wear eye liner, and they seem perfectly able to get jobs (unlike my generation, where there was still such a stigma regarding men who weren’t masculine). And young women live in a world where we’ve empowered them to do just about anything a man can do.They also come from a more enlightened generation that is is far less homophobic, so they can date whomever they want regardless of what gender they call themselves. Why would a young man who feels feminine want to be identified as a woman, when they’ve already torn down the barriers that separate genders anyway? What benefit is that to him? I try to be open minded and accepting but frankly, as a feminine woman who can’t imagine being completed by anything less than a masculine man, the thought of tearing down gender barriers kind of scares me. I don’t want to be expected to fight on the front lines or work in a steel mill just because some woman with an abundance of testosterone cries “gender foul.” I try to keep an open mind and loving heart. But it would really help if I understood.