The following is an exchange between a fellow blogger and myself. I have copy/pasted it word for word, only erasing the other blogger’s name. I put the other blogger’s words in green to make it easier to follow. This blogger, you may already know. If you do, it would be because you must have dealt with him/her before. I am not doing this to cause this blogger any trouble. I just wanted some of the people who read me to tell me if they think I am full of hate from my words. It seemed to me that this blogger twisted them as much as he/she likes to do the written Word in the Bible. This blogger wrote to me first. Now, I know I can be harsh, but I am not one to beat around the bush. So I just got straight to the point, and then it went from there. The last one does not have the time because it was the last one. I think it best to stop answering him/her now, because it gets nowhere, but me frustrated. And extremely so! (So much so, I wanted to share it with you. If that tells ya anything!) Here goes, from the top:
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I saw that you looked in on two of my posts today. I left comments on both, but I could not include you on the reply because you never commented on the homosexuality post.
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That is because I have ran into your type of thinking before, and I see no reason to debate it. You have made up your mind to force a meaning there which goes directly against other clear scripture. The only way your mind will ever change is if you open yourself to the Holy Spirit. Us arguing the matter does no good.
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Actually I clearify scripture for those who wish to know what Yeshua taught. You get your anger from the devil not God. Sure you mind is made up, (Probably unchangeable which is sad, I wish you the best despite your words) but you were the one who visited my site.
- I am not angry. Why would you think so? And if you prefer, I will avoid your site. Belief that homosexual sex is a sin is not equal to hate or anger. Unless, of course, in your mind it is. In which case I suppose you hate every theif and liar too. If you understand the difference in those cases, then you should understand how I feel about homosexuals.
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I have no problem with you visiting my site and yes I do understand how you feel about homosexuals. More than you realize yourself. That’s why I pity you. That kind of fear leads to a small and lonely world.
Why do I think you’re angry? You said: “The only way your mind will ever change is if you open yourself to the Holy Spirit.” In other words you are acussing a brother in Christ of being from the devil. Those are not words from God.
I’ll make a point of including you in my prayers.
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Well, more prayers are always welcome. I am just not sure who the god you pray to is. I see no reason to fear you, any more than there is any reason to fear an adulterer or liar or thief. You just reword things to make your particular sin of choice to appear non sinful. I know there comes a point with God when He will harden your own heart for you. And twisting His Word is a dangerous position to take. From where I’m standing, it seems to me that you would have more to fear than I. And it is such a shame that you have deluded yourself so much. You have been and will continue to be in my prayers. I wish you no ill will. As a matter of fact you seem to be a nice enough person. Why is it that homosexuals always confuse a simple stance on sin with hate? Or the clear statement that it is sin as anger? To me, the whole state of the gay community is in a very sad state. Because you have “Christians” saying stupid hateful things like, “God hates fags.” And the world acting as if you are more cool and more valuable than heterosexuals. Very few voices are saying that God loves you and can heal you. If it makes you feel better to dismiss those few voices as more anger and hate, feel free. But that is not what I feel.
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Well, I don’t doubt it. Yeshua once said that his sheep know his voice.
Those who don’t know his voice aren’t his sheep… Well you can fill in the rest.Likewise you probably won’t read any of this because as you yourself pointed
out you have a closed mind toward the word of God. That’s good for me
because I don’t debate anymore, I’m a teacher not a politician. It’s
not so good for you however, because you’re really missing out. But I
am going to write this down for you anyways on the off chance that you
might actually read it, and you might free yourself from those who
have taken a horrible advantage of you. Free to pursue a real
relationship with God. I’ve been wrong before, and it could well be
that God sent you to me. You may yet read what I write. Only time will
tell.Try to imagine if you were told that if you want to be a Christian you could not
be southern. Of course it’s not a choice for you, is it? So as a
compromise we’ll change it to you can’t act southern. That means you
can’t listen to country music, walk bare-foot in the fields, or sit on
your porch on warm evenings. It means you can’t like guns, believe
that man and dinosaurs co-exist, or visit the rodeo. You must always
dress snappy, eat vegan foods, and adopt an upscale New York accent.
They’ll even be picking your friends for you.How long do you think you would last before you wanted to blow your own brains out?
As Matthew chapter 7 tells us we can tell a tree by it’s fruit. No bad
tree can bear good fruit. If the fruit you and your denomination bears
is pain and suffering for those who are not like you, then what does
that say about your tree?You see you may not be able to realize it, but you and I are quite
agreed that twisting scripture is harmful. The subject of
homosexuality is a perfect example of that. In the mid 1800′s the
word “Homosexuals” was added to I Corinthians and I Timothy and just look at all the
pain and suffering that has come about because of that. Sons and daughters who
are practically orphans now because of who they are. Even these
parents are now missing out on their children’s lives, they don’t know what they’re missing.
Even worse than that are these so-called conversion camps. Places that try to drive homosexuality
from children using the most brutal methods. If you’re gay and get sent to one of the places
your chances of committing suicide triple.I once helped this one boy who had been through such a camp. By the
time he had come across me, he had attempted suicide twice. But with
love, support, and help he’s mostly better now. He’s even gotten to
the point where he no longer blames God for what his former
denomination did to him. You say love is my ” particular sin of
choice” I say loving the heathens is not a sin. Remember there were
several times in scripture when Yeshua was criticized for associating
with sinners.I do understand that you don’t see your church leaders as having taken
advantage of you. In your mind you’re glad to give them your money and
political support. Blasphemy sounds sweet in the ears of a mortal.
They tell you you’re going to heaven and everyone else is going to
hell. That’s a real ego boost. The rest of the world deserves hell,
after all they’re all heathens. The truth doesn’t sound so great as a
fire and brimstone sermon about how God is going to torture everyone
you don’t like, I get that.(BTW please don’t fib to me. I don’t seem like a nice person to you. I seem like a
heathen on their way to hell from your point of view. That’s why I’m thankful that
in reality God is the one who will judge me, and not you.)There’s this teenage boy I take care of. I’ve trained him for years,
since he was nine. This past weekend he had to learn one of those
harsh life lessons. The kind that I really wish I could have taught
him verbally to save him from some pain. Unfortunately there is much
we all have to learn on our own. He came to me yesterday and said,
“Adults, even the ones who are supposed to be really clever are still
just guessing at life, aren’t they?” He had stumbled on one of life’s
great truths.By placing your trust in men instead of God you’ve placed your
trust in the wrong place. The truth might not sound as seductive as
what you minister says but if you gave Yeshua a chance he could fill
your life in ways you never realized.When asked what the greatest commandment was Yeshua answered, “To love
God with all your heart” he likened that to the second greatest
commandment: to love your neighbor. Years later John would write in
his epistle, that loving our neighbors is the same as loving God. If
what Yeshua said is true then shouldn’t we frame all of the law in
these two commandments? If you are interpreting the law in a way that
causes pain and anguish doesn’t that suggest you are interpreting it
wrong?It is you who seems in very sad state to me. I again remind you of our
fruit. If your fruit is pain and suffering how can you be well? To
paraphrase what Paul said to the Galatians:Christ has set us free! This means we are really free. Now hold on to your freedom
and don’t ever become slaves of the law again. I promise you that Christ won’t
do you any good if you get circumcised. If you do, you must obey the
whole law. And if you try to please God by obeying the law, you have
cut yourself off from Christ and his wonderful kindness. But the
spirit makes us sure that God will accept us because of our faith in
Christ. If you are a follower of Christ, it makes no difference
whether you are circumcised or not. All that matters is your faith
that makes you love others. (Chapter 5) -
Well, surprise surprise! I actually did read your whole letter. And you have made a LOT of assumptions about me.
For one thing, the church I was raised in, in the early years was a lot like you assume the church I’m in now would be. But when I was about 9 that pastor retired. They got a new one who was weird or something, and ran him off about two years later. Then, we got a preacher whom, at the time, I think was the best in the world. He was much more of a teacher than a preacher, and he made learning the Bible fun. He taught me a lot. He was one of the best men I have ever had the honor of calling friend. (And these days, I am thinking such men are fewer and fewer to find.) Anyhow, a lot has happened since then, his wife died and the next one changed everything. I had no idea how much difference a good woman could make in a man’s life.
Anyhow, he never taught me hate, only love in those good years. He was the kind of man that people just gravitated towards. He always kept you laughing, and those were some of the dearest times in my life before everything changed. You can read my blogs if you ever get curious as to that sad story, but I never learned hate from that man.
What I did learn from him was to study to show myself approved unto God. To always let the written Word have the final word. Never to put the word of man over the Word of God, because the Word of God is the true Litmus Test of truth. And one big red flag for me, is when man has written several paragraphs up to a whole essay explaining why two or three verse do not actually mean what they say. As if God cannot keep His own Words pure, or couldn’t see to it that capable enough men were around to translate it. On something that important.
A lot has changed since then. He changed. I never have met a preacher since that could hold a candle to him, and I miss those days and that wonderful fellowship we used to have together. Since then I have discovered a lot of snakes and wolves in churches. Very few sheep who know the Lord. No matter what church I go to, they are all hung up on some tradition or other, and they have this attitude that everyone who doesn’t hold the same traditions aren’t really saved. Has nothing to do with what the Bible actually says on the matter. I haven’t had a pastor or a church family in a very long time because of this. But I have given up pretty much on ever finding a church that is interested in the truth more than money or tradition.
Please don’t assume that I am accustomed to letting anyone do my praying or my thinking for me. I am well rehearsed and quite capable of both, thank you. And, contrary to whatever you have assumed, I do know my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I speak with Him constantly. And I am also very familiar with my Bible. Here is where the differences between us come in.
I am sure you are familiar with the Old and New Testament verses which clearly state that homosexual sex is a sin. I am familiar with your reasoning as to why they do not actually mean what they say. Quite simply, that reasoning IS adding or taking away from those Words, which is a dangerous thing indeed.
Now, I understand that you claim some of this was already added in later. By this reasoning, the Holy Spirit inspired the Word, and according to John IS the Word, but yet, allowed that Word to become corrupted. This, along with the fact, that the very commandment of God way back in the beginning about being fruitful and multiplying, REQUIRES opposite sexes, makes your side very much less credible.
About your talk about sadness and pain. According to the Bible I read, the ending of sin is destruction, although there is pleasure in it for a season. It also says to tell the truth. Now, maybe in your mind real love means allowing deceit if it causes happiness, even if the end thereof is destruction. Maybe you are the type who thinks that true love does not have in mind what is best for it’s object, but would selfishly pacify it’s object rather than risk the pain of the truth. Even though the joyous lie will cause much more pain later, the longer it goes on.
That was how my ex “loved” me. And I can tell you from experience, true love tells the truth, even if it does hurt and cause pain. If you have to lie then it is not true.
I do take offense at your insinuation that I was lying about you being a nice enough person. I have met plenty of people who were very nice and not saved. As a matter of fact one of my favorite people in the world is an atheist and I would trust him with my life. And that of my children.
If you think it is that I “hate” gays, you are also wrong on that account. My ex’s brother was gay, and in my opinion the best of that whole clan. And they always made fun of him when he came with his boyfriend for Christmas and such. After a few years of that, I pissed off the whole family because I told them they acted like a bunch of wolves.
From what you say, it seems that this “Christian love” you believe in does not call out any sin at all because that may hurt some feelings. But the Bible says that if you are not chastised you are not sons but bastards. (That might hurt someone’s feelings!) So, if you can sin and feel no condemnation from the Holy Spirit, then you must not have the Holy Spirit. And Paul lists over and over things that will keep you out of heaven. (He was not God, but very judgmental. Uh-oh!) And what he said was that if any other, even an angel of light should preach a different gospel than he did, that it was not to be trusted.
The gospel you are preaching is a very different one. You have made Christianity into an anything goes policy, anything, that is, except talking like Paul did about calling out sin for sin. And Paul also said that God forbid we sin so that grace abound.
Now, I read your whole letter. I wonder if you have read all of mine? I wrote this all out just for you. It was not a copy/paste, which it appears you have done for me. (A lot of times when you copy/paste, the sentences change lines before it gets to the end, or there is only one word in a whole line, like the letter you sent me has.)
In conclusion, I already know what the Bible actually does say. And you do to. You have rejected those Words for something you are more comfortable with. Something that is less painful for you. You say that everything else just must not be of God, because it causes you pain. I have never gotten the impression from Jesus or anything in the Bible, that if one is going against what God has stated, that not causing them pain was more important than telling them the truth. Your version seems different. I suppose this is where we part ways.
~Samantha
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Just because you wrote a long winded reply does not mean you really
read what I wrote.
Just because you thought up what you consider to be a few clever
rebuttals to a few of my points does not mean you ever considered anything
I said.
Just because you make a habit of reading scripture daily does not mean you
are really interested in what Yeshua taught.Consider the following.
*I told you I wasn’t interested in debating but, you still did the
rebuttal thing. Though nice touch with drawing me in with your life
story. I thought for a brief moment this message was going to be for
real. None the less, you told me a lot more about yourself than you
realize.
*You took only a couple of hours to reply to my last message which
means you hadn’t had enough time to do any research, to verify anything
I said, or do any soul searching to reflect on the scripture I gave
you. (For that matter almost no time to even look up the passages and
learn the context.)
*I may have been wrong about it being a current pastor who abused you,
but I’m certainly right about the abuse and indoctrination of fear.
And that fear is what bred your hate and bigotry.
*You claim to love various people, yet feel no remorse for taking God’s
place in condemning them to hell. (Take as much offense as you like at
my previous statement. Truth is often hard to take, but if this
offense can leave an opening for the Holy Spirit to help you let go of
some fear/hate, then it’s worth it.)
*Further to the point you listed all these issues you’ve had with
children of God from many different backgrounds and beliefs, but
failed to recognize that the one common factor has been your own
attitude. Remember that the definition of insanity is to do the same
thing over and over yet expecting a different result.
*Every word I wrote was to try and help you to empathize with those
whom you mistreat, yet your heart is so poisoned with negativity that
such empathy is impossible for you.
*In the same sentence you denied a fear of homosexuals, express that
very fear with the false claim the the world (and what you really fear
is that Yeshua himself does more so) considers them “more cool and
valuable” than heterosexuals. (or more to the point, YOU)
*Your tree bears the fruit of pain and suffering. I guessed it, you
confirmed it in the last message, yet you can not see it. This is why
you carefully avoided that point as much as you could. On some level
you know that I speak the truth. It’s been said that a wise man seeks
correction, given your refusal to take counsel, what does that make
you? (Yet another question you would refuse to answer, no doubt.)
*You claim that I teach an “anything-goes Christianity” when I have never
taught such a thing in my life. However I do understand why you
believe that. Given the kind of abuse you’ve had, you couldn’t believe
anything else.
*You seem to realize that there are only “two or three” (Actually there
are six.) verses commonly perverted into supporting your crusade, but
lack the ability to recognize that a whole doctrine based on a few
isolated verses is rarely a doctrine worth following.
*You’ve picked out what you’ve been trained to believe are holes
ignoring the real points that I made, that you can’t answer, because
you can’t even consider them in your current condition.
*You foolishly point out that Paul often called out the sin of others,
which puts a spot light on your even more foolish mistake of not
recognizing that the sin he calls out is the very sin that you commit
most often, and even more so committed in the very message you point it
out.
*Most telling of all, you have fallen into such idolatry that you can’t
get along with other Christians who don’t read the scriptures with the
exact same narrow/man-made view you do. It’s not just with me, but by
your own admission it’s with a whole array of different Christians. You
have gone in so many circles it could make Taz dizzy. Yet here you are
hurting yourself in horrible ways. Amazing!!!No, you are not interested in Yeshua or relationship with God, you have
turned what you were told scripture says into an idol and worship that
instead. That’s sad because it’s caused you more pain than you realize
and will cause you a great deal more pain in the future.But there is nothing I can do about it, because you are correct that
here is where we part ways. There is nothing you say will make me hate/fear
the people you want me to hate/fear, and nothing I say will convince
you to drop your idolatry and seek a relationship with Yeshua.I have had put in my charge some people who are seeking truth who have
problems that I can help them with, and I have wasted enough time on
you.Should your condition change I will be more than happy to help you
search for a relationship with God, till then you are in my prayers
and have my sympathy. -
I originally wasn’t going to tell you this because I know sooner or later you’ll embarras yourself by making the same assumption with somone else, but the reas for the different formatting on the previous two messages is because I did them on my palm top. I don’t bother to adjust my formatting when I transferr it.
Your paranoid delusions just make it seem like I’m doing something sinister because you don’t know the peace that exists inside Christ.
